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Jig

Coverage by Nobuhiro Hosoki

Story : Thousands of dancers, their families and coaches descend upon Glasgow, Scotland, for the 40th Irish Dancing World Championships.

Opened June 17, 2011

Runtime:1 hr. 33 min.

 

Interview with director Sue Bourne, Dancer Julia O’Rourke, Dancer Joe Bitter.

 

(Q) : You've done so many documentaries previously on TV. I was just curious, how did you get interested in Irish dancing?
 
(Sue Bourne) : A journalist came to me, she'd seen my previous films, and she thought I might make a good film. She was a former Irish dancer herself, and she said "Do you know that the Irish Dancing World Championships are coming to Glasgow next year?" and I went "Nope." And I wasn't sure if it was my thing. I'm not a dance devotee and I didn't know anything about Irish dancing. But we started doing some research and discovered that no one else had ever made a film about it. No outsider had been allowed in to make a film about Irish dancing.
 

(Q) : Why was that?
 
(Sue Bourne): I think the reason they gave that they hadn't let anyone in it was to protect the choreography of the steps. But I think with the advent of the mobile phone that you can film and it can be on YouTube within minutes that argument had gone a bit. Generally I think though because a lot of people look at the wigs and tan and the makeup and they might criticize it. I sort of think they're quite happy with it and they think "Why should we let outsiders come in and criticize us?" So they were weary of outsiders, and then basically we just began a sort of long campaign to see if we could persuade them to let us in, because it was very interesting that no one had done that.
 

(Q) : When did you get interested in Irish dancing?
 (Julia): I was in kindergarten and there was a show and tell that day and the girls did Irish dancing and it was just so unique and I just loved it.
 
(Joe) : I saw a Riverdance tape when I was seven, so my sister started and then I started after and I was trying to copy her. So then I gradually became more and more obsessed.
 
(Q) : Is your sister still doing that?
 
(Joe) : No, she tore three muscles in her foot so she couldn't continue.

(Q) : I recently interviewed Michael Flatley and he was telling me he wasn't actually an Irish guy initially. So obviously I was curious what the background has to do with Irish dancing. I mean with outsiders, if Michael Flatley, an outsider initially…

(Sue Bourne): No he's from an Irish community.
 
(Q) : But he didn't grow up in it.
 
(Sue Bourne): He's from Chicago, which has got one of the biggest Irish communities in America. What the whole point of Irish dancing is that there's Irish dancing and Irish dance competitions in over 30 countries throughout the world and it's a huge community now. And the vast majority of them are not Irish, obviously, but some of them have come into it because of the shows like "Riverdance" and "Lord of the Dance" and they've seen that.

Some of them may have some connection historically, but I think it casts a spell over them and they fall in love with it once they see it. And Michael Flatley did have a connection; he was in the Irish-American community in Chicago, he was brought up in it, so he was probably second generation Irish. I think 20 years ago Irish dancing was second generation in this country. Now it's much broader than that because of his shows.
 

(Q) : In the movie you actually had a broken foot. How could you be able to continue to be able to dance and practice? Was it tough?

Julia: It was tough getting back to normal. I had physical therapy and just lots of practice just made it better and better so that it would be normal for the Worlds.
 
(Q) : But did you have a therapist keep you in shape all the time?
 
(Julia) : No, only when I get hurt.
  
(Joe): Pretty much the same for me too. I get the odd massage, so it's nice to have to keep you limber, like your muscles and everything in tact.

(Q) : Did you actually happen to check on any public school in Ireland? Do they teach you any Irish dancing in physical education classes or something like that?
 
(Sue Bourne): In Ireland itself they do some traditional Irish dancing is part of the school curriculum when they're little. But only when they're little. And actually after that they get it for a couple of years and that's it, and quiet often people don't stay with it, they don't like it because they're forced to do it. But Ireland is not full of Irish dancers just because of having dancing in the curriculum. I think in Ireland it's either in your family or not. [Little Brogen? 04:00] in the film, she's from Derry in Northern Ireland, neither of her parents had ever danced or knew anything about it, even though she comes from Northern Ireland.

(Q) : Do you guys always travel to different locations?
 
(joe) : Oh yeah, you go to Ireland, Scotland, England, America. Mostly in Europe. I've been to Spain to do it, so it's quite varied in places you go. You could go to New York, Philadelphia, West Coast, like you can go to San Diego for the American Nationals. But it all depends what competition it is. Obviously, if it's All Ireland's then you stay in Ireland. They're pretty much scattered about Europe and America.
 
(Q) : In the future do you want to go into sort of Riverdance, sort of going on tour like that?
 
(Joe) : Yeah, I hope so. Maybe in the next few years.
 
(Q) : How about you? Do you want to go and tour like that? Or do you want to teach in the future?
 
(Julia) : I don't really know. I just want to keep dancing for as long as I can.
 
(Q) : How did you select those contestants? Did you cover more of the contest or did you just focus on those kids?
 
(Sue Bourne): We did a massive amount of research. From when we began doing work it was about eight months of research, so we spent a lot of time talking to people, we find out where the interesting stories are, we talk to them on the phone, we go visit them in person, and all the while you're looking for good characters and you're looking for stories that bring something different and bring variety to the film. I mean that's how you make good films is you do your research and spend a lot of time thinking and working on what's going to work in the film, and each story brings something new and different and surprising to the film, so that's how we did it.
 
(Q) : But were you afraid by choosing a lot of the contestants because the scene can get spaced out? The audience had to focus on so many contestants before the story; if you select a couple of contestants that might be easier to tap into the emotions.
 
(Sue Bourne): So you're saying there are too many characters?
 
(Q) : No, no, no. I'm not saying that.
 
(Sue Bourne): It was hard. It was a lot of characters.
 
(Q) : Because you might have a lot of material to edit out of the film, so I was assuming it would be so much easier to focus on a couple rather than so many contestants.
 
(Sue Bourne): Yes, it tripled the amount of work that we did by having so many characters. It tripled the cost of our budget.
 
(Q) : Because you had to travel a lot.
 
(Sue Bourne): We had to travel to Moscow, to Holland, to America, to England, Ireland, and Scotland, and to Europe, so we had lots, and lots, and lots of travel. So it made the film really expensive, but on the other hand the reason I was excited about doing it was because it was a global phenomenon, and if we didn't film in all those different places we wouldn't reflect how international Irish dancing was.

When we were in the edit we'd look and one of our commissioners said "I think we should lose the Russians," and we all went "You can't lose the Russians." Or "Do you think we should lose that story?" and we'd say "But if you lose that story you lose this dimension." So it's a bit on the edge of being slightly too many characters, and I think we just get away with it.

(Q) : It convinced me how the phenomenon is.
 
(Sue Bourne): Exactly, and that it is international. The film is not just a little film for television, it's a 93 minute feature film, and I think it had to feel big and global and international.

(Q) : I was surprised your mothers' devotion. She's pretty much buying your costume and buying your shoes. Do you appreciate your mother's devotion?
 
(Julia) : Yeah. She does a lot. She helps me throughout the competition, and both my parents they're always there like when I get nervous or something, and they always help me throughout the day of the competition.
 
(Q) : Have you ever been on your own without your mother? Do you get more nervous?
 
(Julia) : Usually my mom's there.
 
(Q) : You've never been in a film before. Did Sue get you more relaxed by talking to you and get you in a more relaxed mood to perform in front of the camera?
 
(Joe) : Yeah, it's quite nerve wracking going in front of the camera, but it's exciting as well. So you kind of get the best of the performance because when you're excited and you've got the nerves it gives you better of both when it comes to the performance.
 

(Q) : Yeah, I definitely felt that way. I was fascinated by the guy Sandun. There's not much about the career of the Irish dancer. I don't think I've ever seen that.
 
(Sue Bourne): There's hardly any. This is a girl's thing and it's a white girl's thing.
 
(Q) : Right, so it was quite surprising how he actually chose this.

(Sue Bourne) : For me that's a beautiful story because I think in a way Irish dancing strangely has been his salvation. I think he's had a hard time, as his mum says, being adopted, being colored, being in a white community in a white country.
 
(Q) : And raised by white parents.
 
(Sue Bourne): Yeah, and raised by white parents. And then he chooses this rather obscure sport or art form, but he's the only boy. And has his dad said, for [Sandoon] it's been his salvation. He's judged for what he can do, not for his color, and not for anything else. I kept missing parents and I said "Why do your kids do it? Why do you do it?" And they said "Have you seen what teenagers today are doing?

They're on the streets, they're drinking, they're doing drugs. This is a safe environment. We encourage our children to do this because it keeps them in a very safe cocoon, and if our kids weren't doing this they might be on the streets doing drugs." So some parents are actively encouraging the children to do Irish dancing. It's quite sheltered.
 
(Q) : He might be the guy that might probably set a new standard for it, because definitely nobody sees this, and that would be great. And one of the fascinating things about it is some of the kids are very shy initially and then you have this Irish dancing and you get practice and you get more open about talking to people. During the course of filming this did you get any contestants open up more?
 
(Sue Bourne): One of the things all of the films that I do, what's probably particularly unusual or special or whatever you want to call it, is the intimacy between me and the characters. I spend a lot of time with people and they tell me a lot because I give them a lot and they trust me. And I think that's there in the films, that these characters were remarkably comfortable to have us with cameras at this critical, horrible moment in their lives, when they've danced and practiced for 364 days and this is it. And we're all there with cameras right in front of them, and they didn't mind us being there because they knew us, they were used to us.

So there's an intimacy and I think what I thought was fascinating about these children who do Irish dancing is their confidence. So Julia is not in the film I don't think, but the reason her mum took her to Irish dancing in the first place was because she was so shy. She hid behind her mum, she didn't talk, and you can see what she's like now, so it transformed her. It made her confident and I think the children we met are remarkably mature and confident for their age.

(Q) : Do you guys get to talk to other contestants when you have a competition?
 
(Julia) : Yeah. The day of the competition we're good friends, like I always talk to her, but on the stage we're competitors against each other.
 
(Q) : I see. When you buy all those costumes, which particularly for the female ones it costs a lot. You guys are kids and growing up in a very rapid way. So I was wondering do you have sometimes you bought the costume but you're only able to wear it once because you grow fast? Have you had an experience like that?
 
(Joe) : Particularly for Julia.
 
(Julia) : We just bought my dress in April and it cost $2,500, and now it's short on me and I'm going to have to get a new one, not for Nationals.
 
(Q) : How many times have you worn that?
 
(Julia) : Four times.
 
(Q) : Okay. That's a little bit tough on the mothers.
 
(Joe) : It's not a big deal for me because I spend about $80 on my costume, so it doesn’t really matter that much if I grow out of it.

(Q) : How does the judging system work? There's a moment in the competition when someone bumped into another contestant, but he happened to win the championship. How does the judging usually work?
 
(Joe) : They're not meant to mark you down for it, so it's not that big of a deal if you bump into someone. But it kind of knocks your performance a little bit, so it's not the best thing that could happen.
 
(Q) : Mostly they have personal tastes. It's not like you have to be that particular.
 
(Joe) : It's personal taste but more it's like you just kind of as a judge through seeing Irish dancing, watching Irish dancing for a long time you know who's the best. So you could say it's down to personal taste, but I'd say at the end of the day I'd say in a situation where it's really close then that's' when it comes down to personal taste. But pretty much you can tell.
 
(Q) : You were initially very shy. Did you start to open up your character after you started doing Irish dancing?
 
(Julia): Definitely, because you get more confident going up onto a stage and dancing in front of hundreds of people. It improves your confidence.
 
(Q) : How about you?
 
(Joe): I was pretty confident and then I think it did help my confidence to keep doing it.

(Q): During the course of the filming, because there are a lot of places they have to go. Did you set up the different cameras or were you just shooting the one camera at the competition?
 
(Sue Bourne): During the three months that we followed the dancers it was just one camera. When we went on the road for three months it was myself, Ruth, my associate producer, the cameraman, and the sound man; that was it. In America we had an additional assistant, and in Russia we had a translator. When we got to the Worlds we had to have a huge crew of 20 people because no one else films it, so we had to film all the dancers ourselves. So we had five HD cameras and a crew of 20 people because we had to film every dance on the stage. We had a second unit going around with the dancers, so there were five cameras and a team of 20.

(Q) : What was the fascination that led you to discover from your preconceived notion about dance, and then when you're filming this and after you've done it what were the most surprising things?
 
(Sue Bourne): I think with the films I make I try and start with a completely blank canvas so it's a clear sheet and that you don't have preconceptions and you just go with what you find and then you see what it is that interests you. Ruth and I would sit for hours saying "Well this really interesting about that, isn't it?" and "Oh it's about families isn't it?" because it's about sacrifice and it's about relationships and it's about children growing up and it's about childhood. So all the time were there surprises? I don't know, we were just open to anything. We were just underlining the things that we find interesting in each story.

 

End.