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The Bang Bang Club

Coverage by Nobuhiro Hosoki

Photo by Taiyo Okamoto

Story : The Bang Bang Club is the real life story of a group of four young combat photographers - Greg Marinovich, Joao Silva, Kevin Carter and Ken Oosterbroek - bonded by friendship and their sense of purpose to tell the truth. They risked their lives and used their camera lenses to tell the world of the brutality and violence associated with the first free elections in post Apartheid South Africa in the early '90s.

 

Interview with Actor Ryan Philippe, War Photographer Greg Marinovich

 

(Q) : Do you have any comment on American photojournalists Tim Hetherington (the Oscar-nominated co-director of "Restrepo") and Chris Hondros being killed in a combat zone in Libya on April 20, 2011?

(Ryan Phillippe) : Yeah, the timing is insane, but I refer to Greg on that.

(Greg Marinovich) : It’s very upsetting. They were two great photojournalists and, obviously, Tim was a filmmaker as well. I think what it does is it underlines the risks that conflict journalists face, not just photographers. But also, it’s also kind of the whole dilemma of: "How much emphasis should we put on people who choose to be in a war zone, like we did? How much sympathy are we due?" Not much, I suspect. It’s not great, it’s terrible, it’s upsetting. They were terrific guys but we do go there voluntarily, and that has to be borne in mind.

(Q) : Ryan, besides doing the South African accent, what was the most challenging thing for you in portraying Greg Marinovich?

(Ryan Phillippe) : Any adaptation, any movie based on a true story, there are liberties taken — and you have to accept that as an actor. Greg and I spent time together in person only about a week before we started shooting. Because it’s a small film, you don’t have a ton of prep time. There wasn’t enough money to fly me out and keep me in South Africa for weeks before we started shooting, so there was a brevity [to preparing for the role] that I feel is somewhat regretful. I think the challenges, for me, beyond the accent …

(Greg Marinovich): Which you did very well.

(Ryan Phillippe) : Thank you. The challenges were educational. There was a lot about this time in that country that I wasn’t aware of, which I feel like is a neglect in regards to the school system. I knew what apartheid was, and I knew the dynamics of it, but I did not know the particulars or the inner workings of what was going on with the South African government, how the government was stoking the in-fighting.

So I did a lot of reading. I read the history of South Africa. I read Nelson Mandela’s autobiography. So a lot of it was that for me. It was kind of getting a sense of what was going on there, politically, socially. To an extent, I didn’t have the knowledge prior to making the movie.

(Q) : Greg, which aspects of your personality did you think Ryan Phillippe portrayed exceptionally well?

(Greg Marinovich): I think Ryan did particularly well in my looks. (LOL) Watching a movie is quite a different experience, but being on set was fascinating. Sometimes I’d watch him interacting with my late friends. It was wild, because they all vaguely look like their characters — all of them, some quite closely. And so that was quite disturbing, to be honest, and quite interesting. It can’t be easy acting like somebody in a situation where two of the [real-life people] are there, looking at you and making comments and interacting with you. It’s quite complicated, and they did it really well.

(Q) : What were your moments of trepidation in being involved in "The Bang Bang Club" movie?

(Ryan Phillippe): I don’t think of it in those terms, because I’m excited by challenge. I’m excited by new territory, so trepidation or fear doesn’t really relate in that regard. I think for Greg and Joao Silva, it was important to them that their late friends. the guys who aren’t here any longer, were not portrayed as caricatures or stereotypes. I think we wanted to pay respect and honor to them. I think that’s the thing we were most careful with, essentially: the memory of Ken Oosterbroek and Kevin Carter. It was emotional for you at times, too.

(Greg Marinovich) : It was very emotional.

(Ryan Phillippe) : When we would shoot at the places where the actual events took place, and they hadn’t changed drastically, in terms of infrastructure, it looks almost exactly like it did then. And I think there was something impactful about that, about how fresh it seemed: shooting in those locations where the memories were still so raw for a lot of people.

(Q) : Do you think over-confidence was the reason why the Greg character was shot in the scene when he ran in the middle of a shooting spree to buy a bottle of Coke?

(Greg Marinovich) : That was kind of a movie moment. It did happen, but not in such dramatic circumstances. There wasn’t a gun battle going on when I ran across to get it. It could be over-confidence, but certainly, I think you have to have, if you cover these things, a sense of immortality. Because you know if you can get hurt or killed or lose your legs — like Joao did or like Tim Hetherington or Chris Hondros — you’re not going to do it. "If I take this picture, I’m going to die." Of course you’re not going to do it. That’s just ridiculous. But what you have is, "I know it can happen, but I really don’t think it’s going to happen to me."

( Ryan Phillippe): It’s a cavalier mentality.

(Greg Marinovich) : An idiot mentality. Is that what you said? (LOL) You don’t drive a car and think you’re going to have a car accident, but the chances are greater of being in a car accident than being shot doing photography. So what you is suspend that "inevitable," if it is going to be an "inevitable." And when it happens, that’s quite a shock. And there’s over-confidence and hubris and such, but before it happens, it’s fine.

(Q) : Greg, how did you get to the point when you decided not to do conflict photography anymore?

(Greg Marinovich) : When I married that good-looking girl in the corner there, about 10 years ago. (He points to his wife) But before that, in ’99, Joao and I were with the Northern Alliance, and we were on the front line. And I had a bad feeling for days leading up to it. I wanted to leave, but it was kind of like disturbing to the people at work. They wanted to keep going. And I did get hit and I said, "That’s it. This is a joke. You’re a freelancer. You spend months recovering."

I had to get my teeth replaced. You can’t work for months. It’s ridiculous. That’s when I realized, You know, that’s just stupid. Move on.

(Q) : Ryan, aside from the paparazzi, do you have a new respect for photographers because of "The Bang Bang Club"?

(Ryan Phillippe) : Certainly in regards to the light that can be shed on certain social situations, political situations. Absolutely. Also, this was a period of time before the prominence of the Internet and how immediate media has become. And so these photographs really did educate the world in a lot of ways, as to what was happening in South Africa at this time.

I think the importance, photographically, it still exists to some extent, but now with Twitter and Facebook, we saw what happened in Egypt (Resignation of president Hosni Mubarak), and how we were all kept abreast every single second of what was happening there. So the importance were even greater at the time they were taking these photographs, because Time magazine was the world’s window into situations like the fall of apartheid. Now, I think there are a lot of different ways that you can access that information. We’re talking about it like it was long past, but things have changed in technology so drastically.

(Greg Marinovich) : And I think there is a kind of democratization of media today that allows voiced to be heard that couldn’t be heard previously. One of our issues was trying to get these organizations to tell what we thought was the truth. There’s newspaper journalism that was called "Sunshine Journalism," We can’t keep showing the violence. But the violence is still happening. No, we can’t keep showing it to our audience.

For example, those Pulitzer pictures of mine that appear in the movie, they were widely distributed, but they weren’t widely used, because they were too distasteful. Yet that is what’s happening. So how do these things get out? There was no Internet for people to see it, and no YouTube and such. So it was quite interesting. And you look back in retrospect. There are bodies of work that tell stories, and I think that’s very important.

(Q) : Greg, would you be able to tell on sight which photos were taken by the other three members of the Bang-Bang Club?

(Greg Marinovich) : Should I say yes? Sometimes you recognize a style and such, but any individual picture is difficult, but if you look at the old days, I’d say yes. A series of pictures. But sometimes you’d be wrong.

(Q) : Ryan, how did you spend your free time while you were in South Africa?

(Ryan Phillippe) : I love the food in South Africa. I really loved it. We spent time at Geg's house. Independent film, six-day weeks, in every scene, there’s not a lot of free time. I got to experience the country from a social standpoint and interacting with people, and I loved that. I love the energy.

There’s something great about the country that is reshaping its identity. There’s something that’s so alive about that for me. I got that from the interaction with people, but there wasn’t a lot of time. I’m going back to South Africa in July for the premiere of this film there. And I’m going to take my children, and were going to go on a safari, and we’re going to Soweto. But I didn’t really have time to do that kind of thing when I was there. It was really "run and gun." It gets under your skin. The country just does. I don’t know how or why you can account for that, but it definitely does.

(Q) : Greg, what would you say is most beautiful about South Africa?

(Greg Marinovich) : I think it’s a combination of a kind of openness and in your face. New York is in your face, but in a way, it’s a brassiness. Whereas in South Africa, it’s in your face that’s kind of earthy, because it’s such a mixed society.

Johannesburg is a new city, essentially. No one is more than three generations from the oldest people. Everyone’s a newcomer. It’s very open. It’s not like one of those cities that are closed. Johannesburg is full of immigrants from all over Africa and all over the world. It’s vibrant and crazy and great and unpredictable.

The beauty of the country, it’s obviously physically beautiful. That’s wonderful but I think countries that undergo difficult situations as a society, I think something happens to people that makes them more interesting, and they look at things differently. There’s a lack of glibness in the way they deal with people. I think that’s one of the beautiful things about South Africa.

(Ryan Phillippe) : I agree.

(Q) : Ryan, are there any particular animals you’re looking forward to seeing on the safari?

(Ryan Phillippe) : I’ll probably let my kids dictate that, I remember the guys, when we were making the film, went out and played golf, and a zebra walked across the golf course. That’s something completely unlike anything we’d experience here, but on the way to work, we’d see monkeys on the side of the road, so it’s fascinating.

Q: Ryan, what do you think makes a photograph great?

(Ryan Phillippe) : If it’s able to tell a complex story in a single frame. Do you think there are any similarities to being a combat photographer and an actor?

(Ryan Phillippe) : Not directly, not in my mind. No. The thing I would equate most to in my experience is the idea of being a soldier. There’s something about putting yourself in that situation, the preparedness, the risk, the devotion to what you’re doing. I don’t feel like acting compares in any way to either being a soldier or a combat photographer. There is far more risk involved physically.

(Q) : Did your role as a soldier in "Flags of Our Fathers" help you in your role in "The Bang Bang Club"?

(Ryan Phillippe) : I don’t know. I would definitely find myself thinking about what Greg and Joao and Kevin and Ken did. These guys had no protection. They had no weapons, per se, in the midst of a battle. And that concept was so compelling to me. The idea that you would willingly place yourself in such direct potential harm without any protection, because didn’t wear bullet-proof vests. They would find bullet-proof vests cumbersome. There’s a mentality there that I don’t think a lot of people can relate to that I was fascinated by.

(Q) : Greg, what are your thoughts on photojournalists keeping their emotions in check while taking photos that are emotional?

(Greg Marinovich) : I generally don’t. I don’t believe in this objectivity nonsense. I think one has to be honest and truthful. To be subjective is more honest.

And why should I pretend I’m just a technician or just a camera when I’m taking pictures of other human beings? I think that’s ridiculous. Those kinds of pictures are essentially soulless. So my emotions are all out there photographing. I get involved and let my feelings out.

End.