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Win Win

Coverage by Nobuhiro Hosoki

Story : Mike Flaherty (Paul Giamatti) is a struggling, though not overly ambitious, lawyer. As the court-appointed attorney of Leo Poplar (Burt Young), an old man afflicted with dementia, Mike sees an opportunity to take things easy for awhile by volunteering to become Leo's legal guardian and thereby gain control of the man's monthly stipend. The unexpected arrival of Leo's grandson complicates Mike's plans, until he learns that the youth is a champion wrestler who can help the team Mike coaches.

Opens March 18, 2011 (Limited 3/18)

 

Press Conference Actor Paul Giamatti, Actress Amy Ryan, Actor Alex Shaffer, Director Tom McCarthy

 

(Q): Alex, you’re really a nationally ranked wrestler I understand. Can you talk about the casting and working with Tom and doing your first movie? And Tom, can you talk a little bit about why you picked him?
 
(Alex Shaffer): Tom sent out a cattle call in the newspaper for all wrestlers to come in and audition for a role and my friend said “You should audition for this,” and my initial response was “No.” And he was like, “No, you should seriously audition for this,” and I was like, “Alright, cool man. I’ll go in.” I finally went and auditioned for it and then seven or eight times more and got the role.
 
(Q): The wrestling I guess you could handle, but the acting part?
 
(Alex Shaffer): Yeah, it was different for me. It was hard to get into character at first. It was a crazy experience.
 
(Tom McCarthy): As Alex mentioned, we did put out in some of the papers in the tri-state area a calling all wrestlers kind of thing. I decided early on I wanted to get a wrestler and help him to act as opposed to going the other way around, getting an actor and teaching him how to wrestle. I’m a big sports nut and I can’t stand when I see a movie with sports and I don’t believe that the actor playing the role is not actually proficient in the sport. So that’s how we started and we saw a lot of kids and something about Alex’s initial interview showed a unique quality.

I think the casting director actually said “The kid’s kind of weird; you should see him,” and I saw him and he is kind of weird. I went out and I saw him wrestle. I went out to Hunterdon Central, his high school, and we met briefly after. He won a big match the day I was there; it was a lot of fun to see. And he’s right; we met again, and again, and again, just because he had never ever taken on something like this before, and he just kept getting better. He showed a real aptitude for not only doing but learning, and by the end we were bringing him in to read with Paul and Amy and Bobby and some of the others just to get a sense of how he would respond. He just kept stepping up and meeting the challenge so it made our decision quite easy.
 
(Q): If you could have any house guest of your choosing who would it be and why? And also, what was your best subject in high school?
 
(Tom McCarthy): I liked Social Studies, which I think is what we called it in high school. I had a great teacher, Brian who I really liked.
 
(Amy Ryan): I liked Biology. I liked cutting frogs open more than the Declaration of Independence, I did. I liked Biology, and in terms of a house guest, being a New Yorker I really wouldn’t want a house guest. But I suppose I would take Mr. Obama. I’d like him to sleep over.
 
(Q): Amy, you have played a feisty character in this movie and in other films you have played a decidedly unfeisty characters. Which do you prefer and talk about the differences between the two. Paul, you’ve played some pretty befuddled characters and some pretty dynamic, commanding characters, and I wanted to hear about which do you prefer and which gives you more of a chance to do some fun turns?
 
(Paul Giamatti): It’s nice to be commanding in things because I’m not really particularly commanding in my life. I don’t know; it all depends. It’s a case by case thing. Generally the befuddled guys are sort of more fun. The commanding guys generally are bad guys, so I get to shoot people, which is nice. But befuddlement and those kinds of conflicts obviously that’s the more interesting thing to do for me I guess.
 
(Amy Ryan): Yeah. Just to add to that, having un-tethered energy in a character is more fun to play. It’s more of a challenge to be the one who is in command, in control to keep it active, to keep it interesting, or to trust that in the arc of the story or film that the math adds up and it pays off. But in terms of day to day, Tom worked hard with this one. He started calling my character, and then I guess me, “The Pounder.” But he was right; this relationship is built on so much love and they have a really good marriage and they’re really good friends, so they can take it. They can take that feistiness.
 
(Q): So she didn’t overly befuddle you?
 
(Paul Giamatti): No, she keeps the guy steady. I think she keeps the guy grounded.
 
(Q): Paul, you bring a lot of passion to your characters and you’re really great at character driven characters. But with this it’s a more subtle character that you’re sort of playing off with Amy. Can you talk about your rapport with Amy and making that relationship real that they can identify with?
 
(Paul Giamatti): It was all built into the script. It was incredibly carefully written and Tom’s always revising it and fine tuning it and it is very subtle. It was a wonderful thing and it doesn’t happen very often that you get to act with somebody…we never even really needed to talk about it very much. We got to rehearse, which was really nice, and as I say, Tom kept fine tuning it and it was already there on the page.

Somebody who’s so present and so a person and the camera would role and she would become this person and you’d just see it in her eyes, so she was just there completely. And the way she kind of did for me what the character does for my character, which she kept me on point and sort of steady. But we didn’t need to talk about it much and we didn’t; we just screwed around between takes. We would just fool around and have a good time. That was probably good to keep it going and up and having a good time, but it was wonderful.
 
(Q): Amy, could you follow up?
 
(Amy Ryan): Same with working with Paul. I feel like I’ve known him my whole life or I feel like we went to grammar school together or something like that. He’s the kid in class that you make laugh or makes you laugh but the rest of the class kind of gets in trouble for it. It just felt like there was a – don’t take this the wrong way – but a naughty electricity. I don’t mean that in a sexual way, but just playfulness, and I think that really came across.

One thing I did read from some of the early press and that I feel really proud of is that people believed we were really married. That’s what you hope. You hope to build a truthful world. Again, it starts with Tom’s script and not making fun of people or sending up New Jersey or these characters. It’s just a real honest heart to heart look at this world, and so that was also the goal with setting up this family dynamic.
 
(Q): Amy, I understand you grew up in Queens. Do you still have family there?
 
(Amy Ryan): No, I don’t have family there anymore.

(Q): What part of Queens did you grow up? Tell me about the public schools. As many Queens memories as you can.
 
(Amy Ryan): I grew up in Flushing, went to PS 173, I went to Ryan Junior High School, and then I went to the High School of the Performing Arts in the City.
 
(Q): So you don’t regret giving up Francis Lewis then?
 
(Amy Ryan): I wasn’t zoned for Lewis.
 
(Q): Where would you have gone to?
 
(Amy Ryan): Jamaica. My grandmother lived five blocks away; I grew up in the house my father grew up in.
 
(Q): Do you get a chance to go back at all?
 
(Amy Ryan): These days just to go to the airport or just little trips here and there.
 
(Q): Ms. Ryan, you have excellent chemistry with Mr. Giamatti in the film and there’s a very genuine affection between the two of you. But obviously in the film there’s that betrayal near the end that you find out the secret that he’s been keeping. So my question is in reading the script and finding out that’s where it goes in the end how do you play the character and your affection towards him strongly while knowing in the back that this character eventually offers that betrayal?
 
(Amy Ryan): You have to be careful that you only know what the character knows and don’t play the end in the beginning. That’s more of question too for Tom, is keeping us in the scene that we’re shooting at the time. I guess I do it because I know that’s what to look out for, to not play for that. I’m not really answering your question very well but I think it’s staying out of judgment, just staying true to the scene that I’m in and not getting ahead of myself.
 
(Q): How did you work out the wrestling scenes? Were they choreographed?
 
(Tom McCarthy): Because I was a wrestler and so was Joe, who’s my co-writer, we kind of talked a lot about what the match should be about, and it was easy to map it out pretty simply in terms of language. And then I hired a stunt coordinator who had wrestling experience, and also his brother was my, and Joe’s also, wrestling coach in high school, so it was a little odd and small world. Pete Bucossi and his brother Vic Bucossi. In fact, in the movie, where Paul slaps the kid, that’s where that came from. Vic used to smack the hell out of us and send us out. We still haven’t figured out why.

We didn’t ask for it, we just knew it was coming. The idea being to kind of get the blood pumping, first contact kind of thing, but all it did was made our ears ring. They had a map based on the script and they could go away and do their thing, and sometimes I would say “Look, do what’s there and then play around with it.” And this is where Alex came in very handy because he would sort of bring his own knowledge, which was far superior to mine in terms of wrestling knowledge and talent. And he would interpret it in his way and then we would just kind of workshop it. It was actually quite quick, and then once that happened we could kind of lay back with cameras and cover the action as you would a sporting event and not think about it in terms of cut aways and action sequences where you’re cutting away a lot and covering very tight. We actually didn’t have to do that almost at all in the film.

We just did it for purposes of pace and tone as opposed to action. And that was not just because of Alex, but every young man you see wrestling in the movie is a high school wrestler, and most of them very good in their own right. So I could just kind of set them up, loosely choreograph it, and then kick back and watch it happen. These guys did a great job of executing it and my crew did a great job of capturing it. My cinematographer, who’s German, every time he tried to go in tight on Alex, Alex has an unusual style where he’s incredibly fluid as a wrestler. He moves around a lot, especially you’ll see at the beginning of a match he’ll bounce backwards, and he’d be like “I’ve got to keep him in frame. Tell him to stay still,” because he just kept disappearing. But when we got it it was good, it was just difficult to get.
 
(Q): Alex, how was doing those wrestling matches different than really wrestling?
 
(Alex Shaffer): Well, it was choreographed. My wrestling compared to Kyle’s is much different. I did put my moves into Kyle, but the way Kyle wrestles he’s kind of all over the kid. He’s really fierce and he’s really at him the whole entire time, while compared to my style I’m fluid and I’m a big goofball, is the best way to explain it. I wrestle like a goofball and Kyle wrestles like a badass. Those are the comparisons.
 
(Q): Why “Win Win”? Is it an ironic title? And also to the cast, do you think this is a movie about our times, tough times, people facing financial pressure?
 
(Tom McCarthy): “Win Win” felt right because in talking about the movie, and we kept talking about different moments in the movie and different scenarios, specifically that Mike was getting himself into, win win kept coming up. Take Leo, put him in a home, get cash, it’s a win win. Get the kid and you get the cash. So it just kept occurring and I’m like this is obvious. And then obviously there’s a sports theme, although it’s really not a sports term is it. In fact, somebody said that to me, they said “Isn’t that too much of a sports title?” and I was like when do you go to a sporting and say win win? And that was the end of that conversation.

I think it was that and also, to speak to the larger question, the climate that this world is set in, it is set in the present and I think part of the reason we find ourselves in this situation currently is that we were sold that bill of good, win win. No money down. Low rates. No rates. No nothing, just get, get, get, and we all kind of believed it because who wouldn’t? If the bank tells you to get a mortgage that you don’t have to pay anything on for 10 years of course you’re going to take that. I think that’s something that we kept seeing a lot. You don’t see that term much anymore. We live in a little bit of a different place where people are a little more cautious I think in their approach to those situations.
 
(Q): Tom, Amy mentioned that she was glad that the movie didn’t make fun of New Jersey, but I’m wondering is it a prerequisite when you set a movie in New Jersey that you either have Bon Jovi or Bruce Springsteen in it, and if so, why Bon Jovi?
 
(Tom McCarthy): Yes it is. I don’t know. I don’t think it is. They’re two great recording artists and I think Bon Jovi’s concert sales blew everybody out of the water this year if I’m not mistaken. I just saw the number and it’s insane, like not even close, which was a shock to me. And to be fair, an incredibly generous guy. He gave us this music for a song, for no money. He literally said “Name your rate,” because we had no money for a music budget. And I will add, all these really wealthy rock stars, no one does that. They won’t even pick up the phone if you don’t have the money to start talking to them. And so he was great.

He said “Alright cool” and we named our price and he said “That’s it,” and I said “Can I make it lower actually?” It had to do more with the sequence of the movie. I knew I needed something there musically to mix it up a little bit, and honestly I have to credit Mary Ramos, my music supervisor who’s worked on all my movies. I love a lot of the songs but they didn’t start right for what I was trying to use it for and I knew it was a music edit situation, and then she found “Have a Nice Day.”

She called me and she was like “I found the kickin rock song at the top,” and I heard it and I was like that’s it. So it just worked out that way. I love Springsteen but it felt more right to Amy’s character; that’s what it was a springboard from. And actually on set that day we were like really, with Bon Jovi, are we sure about this? And I was like “Yeah, pretty sure,” and I turn to Alex’s mom like “What do you think of Bon Jovi?” and she’s like “He’s great, are you kidding me? I’m from New Jersey,” and I was like alright, there we go. So I think beyond that that’s pretty much it.
 
(Amy ryan): I would say Jon Bon Jovi’s more for the ladies. The ladies like looking at him more than Bruce. The boys like Bruce.
 
(Tom McCarthy): He’s a handsome devil.
 
(Q) For Amy and Paul, do you remember any advice you might have given Alex on set?
 
(Paul Giamatti): I swear to god, I have to wake the kid up. No, I wasn’t going to give this kid any advice. He was so relaxed and with it and confident about it I didn’t want to get in his way at all. I didn’t want to screw him up by giving him crappy acting advice. He was really on point; he was amazing. I had a good time working with him. I had a great time just going with him and letting him do what he was doing. He was great; he didn’t need any advice.
 
(Amy Ryan): Yeah, it wasn’t one of those situations where the next day you’re going oh god, what has Tommy done? It was apparent even that first day, I guess you hadn’t hired him yet but we all assembled to do an informal table reading, and just the energy as he walks into the room, he’s confident in the best way. It’s not cocky, it’s just like “Okay, I’ll do it.” He’s so game.
 
(Tom McCarthy): There was that feeling as the shoot went on it felt like when you’re a pitcher in a dugout throwing a great game everyone sort of stays away from you, and I think we all felt that way, like whatever you’re doing is working. And like any actor, after a while it just became tweaking, and that’s saying a lot considering the actors he was working with and the size of the role and what he had to do. So he stepped up.
 
(Q): Does Paul really slap you Alex?

(Paul Giamatti): Oh yeah, man. I wound up and hit the kid as hard as I could, absolutely.
 
(Tom McCarthy): We shot that stuff after Alex took him down in the fight scene and I think there was a little retribution.
 
(Paul Giamatti): No, I was game to hit him as hard as possible. He could take it, it’s amazing.
 
(Q): Where did the peroxide blonde hair come in?

(Tom McCarthy): He showed up like that. He came to us like that, and weirdly enough Joe and I went down to Atlantic City the year before to watch the state championships just in our research, and at that point we were so hooked on the sport we couldn’t miss it. And I noticed you’d see a few guys who did that, and a lot of time it was team solidarity, and Alex’s entire team did that during the season the night before a big match. So I had it in my mind and when he walked in I was like perfect. There was something about it that doesn’t say jock to me. It’s not what you would expect and I think that was kind of cool. His whole demeanor didn’t say jock to me, which is what I was looking for. I wanted when you saw this kid to think he was some kind of surf, punk kind of kid, and it just worked.
 
(Q): Tom, your films so far have had his reoccurring theme of assembled families. I was curious first off, what draws you to that theme, and then to the cast, how did you relate to the idea of a family created from a motley crew?
 
(Tom McCarthy): I do not know the answer to that. I came from a big, happy family, and I don’t think I’m constantly trying to recreate something or search for something. I think it’s more about the idea of the random connections that we make in life that has always been of interest to me. I felt like with this movie in many ways it was the inverse of my earlier films, where we had a guy who’s completely involved in his life, in his community, with the team, in every which way, probably over extended to some extent considering now the financial burden he had to deal with, and how that might change, and as a filmmaker and a storyteller I was interested in exploring that.

Just a busier life, a more full life, as opposed to someone who’s a little bit living on the fringe. Enter Kyle, who probably is that, but it’s not from his perspective. That’s what I was attempting to do with this and still thematically deal with some of these larger things such as family and community. That’s just always of interest to me.
 
(Q): Where did the character and specifically his look come from?
 
(Tom McCarthy): Bobby and I worked together on “The Station Agent” the first time, we’ve acted together before that, we’re very dear, close friends. It was a simple decision. As I was writing the character I could just start to hear his voice. And the look was something we all arrived at together. We had a couple of people in mind that we know, but I think one day Bobby was like “I think my hair should be straight,” and I was like “Can you do that? How do you do that?” and then he did it. For some reason when he did that it was like putting on a great costume.

He just became that character. I think Melissa Toth did a great job on costumes because you don’t really notice. But if you start to pay attention Bobby’s doing the pink on pink thing; the guy’s rocking some outfits. The first time he sits in on wrestling practice where you’ve got to take your shoes off he’s got these purple socks with stripes. He’s a guy who definitely has some disposable income. She did a great job of telling us a lot about the character, especially comparing it to Mike’s character. When you see them the first time jogging together and he’s got the latest Lycra on. We just had a lot of fun with it but it was always trying not to go too far, not to comment, but this guy is who this guy is.
 
(Q): Paul, your character with Bobby’s character has such an interesting relationship and so fun. I’m curious, that scene, was that a good getting to know you scene when he had to lie on top of you?
 
(Paul Giamatti): Amazing. I didn’t really know Bobby particularly well. I’d met him but I love him as an actor, I’ve always loved him. The thing is that Bobby wouldn’t go too far. He’s in great control of what he’s doing. He’s wonderful and he’s so funny. We’d rehearsed that scene. That was the first thing I think we shot, he and I together. It was a beautiful day and that was all stuff that Bobby did there, they laying on top of me thing. Because I think he hadn’t really seen me have the panic attack so they freaked him out I think, and he said the first thing that came to his mind is aren’t you supposed to keep somebody warm who’s freaking out like this. So he climbed on top of me and it was fantastic. I don’t break easily and I couldn’t stop laughing most of the takes.
 
(Tom McCarthy): Yeah that was a great way to start. It was a beautiful day and we had our whole crew there and I think everyone had the sense and spirit of the movie at that point. That was completely his line, “man blanket.” He sort of muttered it the first time and I was like “What did you say?” and he said “I said man blanket.”
 
(Paul Giamatti): And all of that just came out of him doing that stuff there. It was fantastic. And we just kept going with it and had a great time. You know what’s going to happen so it’s a great thing, and he’s got that ability to just go with an impulse like that in a great way.
 
(Q): Is that relationship based on you and Joe?
 
(Tom McCarthy): I’ve lied on top of Joe a few times. No, it’s not. I think the great thing about us writing this story together was there are little bits of each of us that go both ways in the characters. Joe and I have very different lives, although we’ve made very good friends over the years, and it’s always fun to revisit that. Terry and Mike are very different guys but they have a common ground, and I think most of all they have a sense of humor that they enjoy, and I think that’s where Joe and I meet a lot.

Even in research and hanging out together things would come up and we’d laugh and throw it in the movie. I think that’s where the man strength conversation came from. Joe actually used that in public once. It was hilarious. I was like “Did you say man strength?” and he was like “Yeah, I think I did.” With Paul and Bobby they didn’t really know each other and they’re both good friends of mine. I’ve known Paul for 20 years and Bobby about the same, and they’d maybe met once. I just had this feeling that they would connect and they certainly did, it was apparent quite early on.
 
(Q): Tom, I think you’ve found a great balance in your filmmaking. Does it make you more understanding towards directors when you’re acting and more understanding towards actors when you’re directing? And for Paul, one of your upcoming projects is “The Congress,” with Ari Folman, and it’s based on a Polish novel. In preparation for the project have you read the story?
 
(Paul Giamatti): I have read the story, yeah, I like that writing a lot, which is one of the reasons I was interested in doing it. He’s not still alive is he?
 
(Q) : No, he died 12 years ago.
 
(Paul Giamatti): He’s an amazing writer. It’s a movie called “The Congress,” and it’s directed by a wonderful Israeli director named Ari Folman, who did “Waltz with Bashir,” and half of the movie is animated. It’s sort of psychedelic, science-fiction story. But we’ve been shooting it and I’ve done a bunch of stuff and it’s pretty wonderful.
 
(Tom McCarthy): And yeah and I think of course right. As an actor working with other directors I’m always learning what is helpful to me and what is not and I try to bring that to my work. What I enjoy about being an actor on set is just being an actor and not worrying about anything else. I like being directed, I like working with talented directors.

And I think conversely when I’m working as a director with actors I mean I am an actor, it’s how I started, so I really enjoy that part of the process, I enjoy communicating. Each actor has their own language, their own way of working, their own technique, and getting in there visually but also making a company. You have a short time on a film to make a company really. I think if you can do that that does play through into the finished product. So that’s the challenge and mostly that is just a very joyful part of the process.
 
(Q): Alex, how much did you enjoy the experience of acting? Are you going to continue this as a career?
 
(Alex Shaffer): Yeah, totally. I had a ton of fun. It was cool working with actors like this. At the time I didn’t really realize how big of a deal it was but now it’s certainly something special.
 
(Paul Giamatti): He used to ask me “Is this really going to come out, this movie?” I was like “I hope so.” He was very calm about things, it was interesting.
 
(Alex Shaffer): Yes, I am going to be acting in the future. I love it, it’s sweet.

(Tom McCarthy): It was great to watch him. We kind of all stood back and were like alright, he knows what he’s doing. There was directing to be done and that kind of thing and there was a big learning curve, but it was really fun to watch him sort of become an actor in front of our eyes. It’s what you have to do when you step into that position, and he did it. He slowly understood the process on a deeper level day by day, and that’s a big learning curve for anybody, not to mention someone who’s never done it before.
 
(Q) : Would you recommend that as he is so natural that he continues without acting classes and going to film school?
 
(Paul Giamatti): I’m looking forward to Shaffer’s Hamlet, frankly.
 
(Alex Shaffer) : You’re a sweetie, Paul.
 
(Tom McCarthy): He started working a dear friend of ours, Jackie who’s an old collaborator of mine and is a very good acting coach here in town. He started working with her during filming and it paid dividends, like you could see it. She has a great way in bringing out in actors a new technique and you could see him start to develop that, and it’s essential. I think ultimately you do need a technique, it is a craft, it is something you need to build on, and I think he had the privilege of working with some really talented actors here, and I think taking a page from their book they’ve all paid their dues, they all are technically incredibly proficient, not to mention just very talented people.
 
(Alex Shaffer): Yeah.
 
(Q) : Are you going to write and direct for stage ever and are you guys planning anything on stage in the future?
 
(Tom McCarthy): I would love to at some point. It has occurred to me recently to do that, or direct someone else’s material for stage. That is of interest to me. No promises yet, because I don’t know when, but it is something I would do just because I’ve never had that opportunity in New York to direct for stage. I’ve acted obviously on the stage in New York, but never directed, but I think that would be a lot of fun.
 
(Paul Giamatti): I would love to do a play again but I sort of just follow the movie work and see how long I can play that out for. I would love to do a play again, yeah, if one came along.
 
(Amy Ryan): Yeah, same. I’d love to do it but I haven’t yet read one that has made me want to give a whole year and earn $200 a week doing. But I won’t give up on it.
 
(Q): I wanted to know if any of you ever disagreed with any of your parents’ decisions or showed signs of rebellion, and if so how did your parents deal with it?
 
(Tom McCarthy): No.
 
(Alex Shaffer) : No comment.
 
(Tom McCarthy): He’s still living it.
 
(Paul Giamatti) : He’s in it right now.
 
(Tom McCarthy): I would say of course I have. I have great parents and there’s always a back and forth and sometimes they had to be parents and veto me and mostly I understood. Looking back I don’t have any grudges.
 
(Amy Ryan): I was the youngest of three girls so I got to watch. My oldest sister is the one who was the most ambitious and adventurous and the one who got in the most trouble. So we learned by her mistakes, or her adventures I should say.
 
(Paul Giamatti): I have the same thing. I have an older brother and an older sister who were out of their minds.
 
(Amy Ryan): By the time any rebellion came from me I think my parents were just too tired.
 
(Q): What did you get away with?
 
(Paul Giamatti): Just a lot of shit. I don’t want to talk about it, but I did get away with I think more stuff because they were just kind of like whatever with him.

End.